tv Morning Joe MSNBC December 7, 2012 3:00am-6:00am PST
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we're counting down to slashing the 'stache. at the top of the show, we asked you, why are you awake? producer john tower has your answers. john. >> we've got bobby who writes, i'm awake in anticipation of the big slash. i'm thinking of shaving my back in solidarity with axelrod. >> ew. that's just gross. what you ought to do is wax like louis. louis, start the show. >> "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ this is it ♪ make no mistake where you are ♪ ♪ this is it for 40 years, every morning when i wake up, i look in the mirror, and it's me and my mustache. and we've gone many, many miles together. so to be without it is going to be a profoundly weird feeling. but we raised $1 million for epilepsy research. and the loss that people have suffered because of epilepsy is
far greater than a mustache that perhaps i can grow back someday. so i'm more than happy to give that up in order to advance this cause. >> welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, december 7th, a day which will live in infamy in the axelrod household because we are going to see what is above that lip. >> yeah. it's time. he's had that thing for, like, 2 20 too many years. >> didn't somebody tell him the village people broke up? >> exactly. with us on set, we have chairman of deutsche incorporated, donny deutsch. contributor to "newsweek," mark mckinnon. and the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. a lot going on abroad. >> i was at one of their events last night. david was panicked. >> he should be. >> he stood up and he actually said -- he called his mustache his friend of 40 years which i
found a little odd. >> say good-bye to that friend. >> he kept saying, how's this going to work? i'd text back, well, joe and i -- >> you and joe are going to do it? i think he's concerned we might hurt him. >> i'm going to let you do your side. >> yeah. >> i'm going to pull back. >> come on, now. >> i want to see just half a 'stache. and then we'll have to raise another $1 million to get the other half off. >>, no, no, the whole thing goes today. >> look how much we've raised. >> thanks to good friends of "morning joe" and friends of the axelrods, they have reached and surpassed the $1 million goal which, of course, is why we are here at this moment today. >> the president of the united states stepped up. >> absolutely. >> and contributed. we greatly appreciate that. i know david certainly does. >> donald trump, mark cuban. >> mark cuban did. and our good friend steve rattner. >> rattner. >> helped put us over the million-dollar mark.
>> did you bring your check? >> unicef. i've got my check. >> good. i tried to remind you. we are working to find a cure for epilepsy. we hope the contributions will help, and $1 million will make a big difference. >> let's talk about -- we have the man of the moment here with us. to talk about today's headlines. let's start -- there's so much to talk about, but richard, let's start in egypt. absolutely fascinating. i think a lot of people across the world were so heartened by the democratic, we thought, perhaps uprising that was going on in egypt. certainly we all knew to overthrow a dictator of 30 years, even if he was an american ally. and now you have mohamed morsi behaving like a, well, a dictator. and he's now got roughly 39, 40
political parties in egypt rising up against him. it is a mess. >> what you're seeing in places like egypt is the difference between democracy and majoritarianism. winning elections is the easy part. the question is whether they can govern, whether there's any tolerance for minorities, for multiple points of view. he did a power grab. there's now pushback. i think it's wrong to assume, though, that all the people pushing back are necessarily democrats. >> no. >> a lot of people are just going to try to take advantage. >> but everybody's pushing back, and certainly elements of mubarak's regime are looking for an opportunity to regain some power. but you also have coptic christian pushing back, other islamists pushing back, some even more extreme. >> exactly. >> you have all elements pushing back here. i'm absolutely bewildered as to why morsi thought he could get away with this. >> these are guys, morsi, who are either in jail or in the streets in opposition for their
entire careers. they come into office. why would we think that they spent all their time out of office reading the federalists papers in arabic translations? they didn't. the only political game they know how to play is the old play. >> get power. >> seize it. in this case, the muslim brotherhood, if he does not end up consolidating power, and even if he does, he has caused such damage to the muslim brotherhood brand in egypt. here is a movement, a powerful movement, a resistance movement for 30 years that promised that they would not seek power if mubarak left. mubarak left. then they sought power. then they seized power. then they sought ultimate power. you know, the egyptians, as you know, you can go back to the attack -- i think it was '98 against japanese tourists. the egyptians are repelled by
islamic extremism. they certainly have in the past. >> and that's the good news here, which is the fact that the same type of coalescing of forces that pushed out mubarak seems to be pushing back against him. that tells you something about the fabric and nature of egyptian society. there is some civil society. there is a sense of a balance between government and the govern, and that's the good news. the not-so-good news or the big question mark is whether they can take that general attitude and translate into a political arrangement that has some stability and legitimacy. and what we've seen is that hasn't happened yet, and that's the thing that's playing out. and we don't have a lot of influence over it. we can basically say -- we can incentivize them to do some of the right things, conditioning economic aid from the imf or the united states on pluralism and something that looks like a democratic process. but at the end of the day, egyptians are going to have to work it out, and it's going to be awfully important because people should never forget, this is a quarter to a third of the arab world, and cairo is one of the great centers of the arab and islamic world. what happened here is
repercussions that go far beyond the borders of egypt. >> no doubt about it, they are the leader of the arab world. mika, also fascinating just to look at what's going on to see that the army, which has always been such a powerful force in egypt, standing on the sidelines. >> well, we also have -- >> not getting involved. >> right. we also have a crisis brewing in syria with the assad regime growing increasingly desperate. intelligence reports indicate that a chemical attack against his own people could be imminent. even russia, syria's most powerful ally, is alarmed. their foreign minister met yesterday with secretary hillary clinton discussing the possibility of a syria without assad in power. >> wow. >> this morning rebels have declared damascus's airport a military target, warning civilians and airlines not to approach it. >> richard, that's what we're looking at. we're looking at russia to see when russia finally gives up on assad. if they are, in fact, coming close, it's over. he's done.
>> that's the beginning of the end. and i think that's finally in play. brahimi who preceded kofi annan trying to do a diplomatic process finally, i think, has something to work with. it's the possibility of the threat that the syrian regime might turn to chemical munitions, and the russians realize that would be the equivalent of jumping and that their long-term equities. the russians realize that would be too far, not on moral grounds, but on real politic rounds. so the chances of telling the syrians don't do it, but the russians saying if you do it, you won't be supported. and possibly giving him a way out before he thinks -- before he makes the decision whether to do it. this has all come into play. so what was gridlocked for months has finally now begun to open up. so things are both getting a little bit worse, but also you can actually see some opportunity here that you haven't seen in syria literally for over a year. >> there's some exciting possibilities here, mika. speaking of gridlock being
opened up, we might have possibly mano a mano. >> or as i say, mano a mano. whatever. the effort to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff is now a two-man operation. interesting. president obama and speaker boehner. nobody else. with 24 days before a year-end deadline, "the new york times" says boehner made the request to clear the negotiation room going forward, leaving it up to himself and the president to reach a deal to avoid automatic tax hikes and deep spending cuts. and while the two men may be negotiating privately, yesterday the president took his message to the public, visiting a local virginia family as a part of his my2k social media campaign, sitting around the kitchen table. he told the family he was optimistic. >> the message that i think we all want to send to members of congress is, this is a solvable problem. the senate has already passed a
bill that would make sure the middle-class taxes don't go up next year by a single dime. just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> what great news, i think. don't you think so, mark mckinnon? i loved the president's tone there, talking about how a deal could be done. and i was critical of him when he did a campaign event up in philadelphia -- or pennsylvania a couple days ago when he wasn't talking to boehner. but if he's talking to boehner one on one and they're going to start this discussion, they go out and make statements publicly and then privately, i think it's a great step forward. >> i think it's a terrific
development. i think that the president and boehner created a lot of chemistry over the years and that the distractions have come from other constituencies that have been in the room. i think that they both understand that this is important to both their legacies. and so they have an opportunity for them to just deal together one on one is a terrific development. >> and the president looking -- and you as a businessperson knows this, and i think we've all been in the position of negotiating and you say, okay, do we want to deal with him, or do we want to cut him out at the knees and get past him and go to him? and if him is eric cantor who has to answer to a lot of conservatives in the caucus, are you, that is more of a john boehner, i'm doing everything i can to prop you up just like the president of the united states, when it was bill clinton, actually had to prop up newt gingrich because he knew dick armey was next. >> and tip o'neill and ronald reagan. the great news about this, if you really think about it, the fact that they're both publicly saying okay, now it's mano a
mano, as you would say. if it doesn't work, well, then those are the fall guys. so if you really kind of think about it, they're not going to set themselves up this way, if in some way, shape or form they both don't believe it's going to get done. this way they both look like the hero. they would have been doing a lot more behind the scenes. okay, the two big dogs go in the room together tells me it's going to get done. >> and it tells me also that yesterday "the new york times" story, mark, was deadly accurate when "the times" reported, the top of the paper on a1 that john boehner was more powerful. you never, if you're speaker of the house, say clear out, guys and gals. i'm going to go in there myself. and i'm going to bring out a deal. >> and i'm going to make the call. >> yeah. and i'm going to make the call because he wouldn't have done that last year because he would have got stabbed in the back by about 30 different very conservative tea party members. >> no question. this is really a significant development, both in terms of
the equation, but also for boehner in terms of not only the perception but the reality of the power that he has today. >> i also believe -- i said this a month or two ago, right after the election. and you guys kind of mocked me where i feel the zeitgeist is very much now hand s across the aisle. i just feel it's a moment in time where the person public will not tolerate anything else. and i think both politicians understand that. i think this is a moment in time that there's a little bit of a game-changing moment, and i see it happening. >> at the risk of agreeing with donny, this is -- any negotiation's always got two dimensions or two axises. one is across the table and the other is the context. and the two shape and go back and forth. and the context has changed. we're now seeing enough people on both sides, particularly on the republican side, talking about the possibility of some increase in rates, things like that. what this tells you is that there's a room for maneuver that wasn't there before. so the fact that they can have
the private conversation in some ways tells you is the public conversation is allowing them to do it, and they know they can emerge from a private conversation and sell it. and that's the fundamental change. it's not just the private thing. the context is actually changed, and it's given them more space. >> here's washington at work. >> washington at its best. >> somehow we found ourselves listening to harry reid. >> yeah. >> on the senate floor. >> mm-hmm. >> comparing the republican party to the new york jets. >> what? >> it's not one of my favorite teams, but it's really, really fun to watch. and that's the new york jets. coach ryan, he's got a problem. he has three quarterbacks. sanchez. he's got tim tebow. he's got a guy like mcelroy. he can't decide who their quarterback is going to be. that's the same problem the republicans are having. romney's gone, but he's still in the background. we have mcconnell, and we have boehner. who is the quarterback, mr. president? who is the quarterback?
>> richard haass, a quizical look on your face. >> normally when you play football, you don't decide the other team's quarterback. >> right. >> that's usually for the coach to decide. so why is harry reid worried about who's the quarterback on the other team, and why is he even using this metaphor to begin with? >> it's painful. stop it right now. >> this is why it's a good development. by the way, there's another interesting development with the leadership yesterday was that mitch mcconnell tried to make a move to separate out the debt negotiation, the debt ceiling and he thought he had a power play to embarrass the democrats, and the democrats pulled together 51 votes. >> he had to filibuster himself. >> filibuster his own bill. >> wow. >> isn't it a fascinating change, though, mark, back when we were younger, like ten years ago, it used to be the senate that was the chamber where members were more respectful of each other.
now watching harry reid run the senate and mitch mcconnell blast back at him, they are acting really -- and you see this all across the senate. more like we used to behave in the house. >> yeah, those emperors aren't wearing much clothes. >> have you seen a moment in time where two politicians have seemed more like the parade has passed by than mitch mcconnell and mary reed. it's time to change. >> i have no idea why harry reid is running the democratic caucus. i mean, maybe he's great behind the scenes, but in front of the camera, he's just -- >> mitch mcconnell, same thing. >> so then mcconnell filibusters his own bell and then says such a change of magnitude requires 60 senators. >> let's talk about filibuster reform. >> oh, lord. >> democrats have been complaining about the filibuster for years now, since actually they took over the senate, and now they have a chance to get
rid of the filibuster. there's nothing in the constitution. madison wrote nothing of the filibuster. but i want everybody to hear, though, because for the past four years, we have been hearing how evil the republican party is because they filibuster. >> yeah. >> harry reid, the democratic senate, senators like claire mccaskill, senators like, you know, kirsten gillibrand, senators like chuck schumer. they can all get rid of the filibuster at the beginning of january. so why don't -- if the filibuster is so evil and if the republicans are so evil for wielding the filibuster, this is very easy. just make the rules in january -- forget filibuster reform. i support getting rid of the entire filibuster. >> i agree. >> let's wipe it out. so why don't we get the democrats to get rid of the fill bust filibuster?
>> because people across the country agree 100%. you get outside washington, it's a no-brainer. majority should rule. it's simple. >> right. so why don't democrats, since they're in the majority, get rid of the filibuster? >> the same reason they won't get rid of the prerogatives where minorities can have disproportionate power. everybody's worried when the worm turns, it's going to turn on them. you're right. this ought to be one of the things that's teed up. >> it's not ideological. this is not a right/left issue. >> about power. >> yeah, it's all about power, and we ought to make those changes. they're simple changes. >> donny, let's get rid of the filibuster, and now is the time for democratic leaders to listen to their base. let's have the courage. let's read e.j. dionne columns. i think republicans should read e.j. dionne columns from the floor of the senate, that institution talking about how evil the republican party is for
filibustering. let's get rid of it. and i'm deadly serious. get rid of the filibuster. >> i think americans want republicans to act a little less like republicans and democrats act, and getting rid of the filibuster is the middle ground for both. >> would you support getting rid of the filibuster? >> duh. >> will you write your two democratic senators and tell them to vote against the filibuster? >> chuck schumer, a good friend of mine. to me, i keep going back to the same thing. stop acting as you used to do by definition, you're going to win. this is an example. reach across. act differently. it's a different moment in time. >> mm-hmm. yes, it is. >> richard haass, should we get rid of the filibuster? >> absolutely. and it's one of the many things we should do. >> will you write your two democratic senators and ask them to get rid of the filibuster in january? >> i am happy to do that. >> or tell them -- >> the same impact on all my other communications. >> or tell them forever hold their peace when republicans filibuster? because they have the power in january to get rid of the filibuster. >> and if i do write them, what i would also make the case, it's
not simply a political or economic argument, this is a national security argument. we have got to function better as a country if we're going to deal with the challenge we face. and it sends also a message to american democracy works, others might be slightly more likely to emulate it in form. we've got to show it works. and this is one of the ways. >> mika brzezinski, with the arab spring in full bloom, will you write your democratic senators and ask them to step forward and listen to their democratic base and send a message to the arab world how we really should run our democratic institutions? >> send a message to children around the world. >> children around the world, will you ask your democratic senators, when they have the power to make the rules in the new session of congress, to get rid of the filibuster? >> i don't know, i kind of liked claire mccaskill's reaction when we actually had to see a senator filibuster himself. >> yeah. >> i would miss those moments. >> it would be nice to make them filibuster if they're going to keep the filibuster. >> the aa minimat a minimum.
at a minimum. >> such a loss. >> mika, will you ask your democratic senators? >> i'd have to think about it. >> think about it -- >> i'll just call them. >> -- don't complain about it over the next two years because democrats now have all the power in their hands. >> that's correct. they can get rid of it. >> 30 seconds before you go, there's a lot of abuse that comes my way because of some clothing choices i make. >> yeah. >> mr. mckinnon, my dear friend, always has scarves. there's never a question. there's never a challenge. >> right. >> pure acceptance. >> because he's self-aware, and he has a sense of proportion. and he doesn't spend a lot of time in front of the mirror or in salons. tanning. and he doesn't have a big mouth above his bed in his bedroom that's sucking in i don't know what. pearls or something. >> horrible picture. >> disgusting. >> i've got to say, i think we should quote the great english poet rod stewart in this case. >> yeah. >> he wears it well.
>> he looks good. he's comfortable with himself. >> i'm jealous. i'm jealous. >> you should be. >> he's comfortable with himself. >> he also doesn't wax every part of his body. >> overpreening, donny, is a sign of real need. >> speaking of waxing. say good-bye to his 40-year mustache after raising $1 million for epilepsy research. this morning, we shall slash the 'stache. also ahead, nbc news political director, chuck todd, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory, eugene robinson and gillian tett and "the political playbook" with mike allen. first, dylan drier with a look at the weekend forecast. >> the weekend is looking okay. we do have rain showers to talk about. in fact, most of the rain we're seeing right now is back across ohio into pennsylvania. heavy at times. but notice how it is mostly rain. and this is december. we're not talking about a whole lot of frozen precip out there this morning.
although eastern pennsylvania, it could be a little bit slippery just because of some freezing rain mixed in. but elsewhere, it is all rain right now. and in the northeast itself, we are starting off the day just with some clouds, but chilly temperatures. 20s in hartford. new york city, 38 degrees right now. the rest of the country, it's really the northern half of the country that's seeing the rain right now. the southern half enjoying a lot of sunshine through the day today. temperatures are a little bit cold, though. kansas city, 43, but denver at 30. that's the cooler air that is going to start working in here as we head into this afternoon. chicago, 43 with some rain today. minneapolis, a mix of rain and snow. then as we go into the weekend, it does look like that rain and snow sticks around in minneapolis. not a whole lot of accumulation, though. and the rest of the northeast, just a few showers, especially saturday morning. that is a check on your forecast. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.
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time now to take a look at the "morning papers" at 27 past the hour. we'll start with "the wall street journal." military officials and the obama administration want greater flexibility to launch operations against terror groups in africa. the operations would target al qaeda-related groups in countries like mali, nigeria, libya and others. and "the oregonian," it was 71 years ago today that pearl harbor was bombed by the japanese in a surprise attack. 2,400 americans were killed. thousands will gather today to remember the raids with a moment of silence at 7:55 a.m., the exact time the bombings began in 1941. and when they began, my grandfather was on "the maryland." >> wow. >> my dad always took us out there. let's go to "the seattle
times." despite a federal ban, washington state's law allowing recreational marijuana described as one of the most liberal in the world went into effect midnight last night. the state will start licensing farms and retail stores to grow and sell marijuana next year. police across the state are said to be taking a laissez-faire approach. >> where's that willie geist? actually, that's heilmann. you know, i'm surprised connecticut has a pretty darn liberal law. >> colorado. >> colorado, man. >> what's in "parade" this week, joe? >> in "parade" this week, winners of their first annual holiday bake-off. >> oh, good, maybe good recipes. >> in "parade" magazine. >> i want to make cookies. >> i'm sure as a marijuana -- >> now, stop p continue look how adorable that picture is. i'm going to make cookies just like that this weekend. >> chow on those and marijuana.
>> stop it. mike allen is here with the morning "playbook." we haven't talked a whole lot about jim demint leaving. i had a call with him yesterday, and he said and he believed, and i certainly understand it, he's leaving because he'll have more money running the heritage foundation than being 1 of 100 senators. and i must say -- >> running think tanks is a good thing to do. >> running think tanks, not bad. i must say, there have been several times over the past several years that people have approached me and asked me to run for senate. and every time i ask people in the senate if i should run, they go, are you kidding me? >> right. >> are you kidding me? stay where you are. >> why step down? >> yeah, don't step down. 1 of 100 is very frustrating. you hear that from every single governor that serves in the senate. stay away. so i guess jim demint is following that trend. what does that say about the most exclusive club? >> and the tea party. >> it's very telling.
but first have to wish you happy slash the 'stache day. >> oh, thank you, mike. >> it's big, mike. a big day here. >> exciting. >> and this is one sign of how the younger, more partisan congress is pushing power to the outside. and it was very telling that jim demint, when he announced this, which took everyone by surprise. we knew that he wasn't running again in 2016, but he hadn't said what he was going to do. and he was in line to be the top republican on the commerce and transportation committee, a very powerful, very lucrative committee. they're going to be in charge of a rewrite of the highway bill, they're in charge of telecoms, a lot of other areas that bring in a lot of contributions. but when he announced this, he gave an interview to the editorial page of "the wall street journal," and he talked to rush limbaugh rather than talking directly to his colleagues. and that said it all about this outside power that you were pointing to there.
where these younger members, more partisan nmembers, more vocal members who have more access to media fund-raising on the outside, they don't need the leadership. and it's a sign of how the seniority system, the more consensus-oriented older guys are losing power because jim demint, one of the most powerful voices in the senate, and yet he doesn't have a law to his name. he wasn't an old bull. he didn't have a long list of legislative accomplishments. >> mark mckinnon, that's the point, isn't it, that you can influence the debate, but as far as legislating it, as far as writing laws that change which direction the country goes, or influences where we go over the next 10, 20 years, to do that, you've got to talk to, you know, the man or woman sitting next to you instead of talk radio. >> that's right. you know, as mike alluded to, he left literally no legislative footprints. i mean, there's nothing in the
senate that bears his name in terms of legislation or any significant developments. and all his power was outside washington. and it had significant influence -- >> a lot of power. >> a lot of power. it will be interesting how he translates that to the heritage foundation. >> it's interesting to go through historical great senate names that also have not left a legislative trail of any consequence. it's just kind of what goes with the territory there. >> and you know, there is a real opportunity right now for history to be made. >> yeah. >> nikki haley could appoint tim scott, an african-american, who was elected actually along the coastline from a district that goes from charleston all the way up past myrtle beach. and he would be, i think, the first african-american republican senator, certainly from south carolina since reconstruction. and he would be the only -- the only african-american in the
senate right now if nikki haley does what i certainly hope she was doing. what a powerful message that would send. >> it is. all the physics seem to be headed that way. and this is another reminder that south carolina has fascinating politics very much like louisiana. >> that is stunning that there is no african-american in the senate. stunning! >> no african-american in the senate. also what's stunning, too, talking about south carolina and what a remarkable state south carolina is politically. >> right. >> first of all, you have lindsey graham who's a bit of a moderate republican. >> this helps lindsey. >> this helps lindsey. you also have, you know, mark sanford when he was governor, he was conserve conservative economically. but in a lot of other ways, he was moderate. >> i'm the guy that actually thought he was on a walk. >> i use the word "liberal." >> he was also on his way to a pretty strong white house run. but because he wasn't a hard right winger on a lot of social issues. but you also look at tim scott,
when he won, he beat the son of campbell and the son of strom thurmond, an african-american that grew up with a single mom in tough circumstances. it is a remarkable story and a great story for the republican party that got absolutely obliterated a couple of weeks ago among people of color. >> yeah. >> it would be fascinating. mike allen, thank you very much. >> thank you, mike. >> happy weekend. peyton manning and the denver broncos looked like super bowl contenders last night. >> they are looking good. >> their eighth straight win. highlights from thursday night football ahead in sports. rhonda's christmas shopping
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time for some sports now. peyton manning and the broncos looking for their eighth straight win last night against the raiders. first quarter in oakland, peyton manning drops back and connects with joel dreessen for the score. broncos take an early 7-0 lead. raiders down by nine in the third quarter. carson palmer trying to convert on third down, but vaughn miller comes around the edge and forces the fumble. broncos recover at the 2 yard line. and two plays later, knowshon moreno punches it in from a yard out to extend the broncos' lead. denver wins its eighth straight by a final of 26-13 with a 10-3
record. the broncos are currently the number two seed in the afc. let's go to the nba now. the knicks on the road against the defending champion heat. new york was without carmelo anthony. out with a lacerated finger. first quarter, raymond felton drives into the lane and lobs it up for tyson chandler who was there for the finish. but the knicks did most of their damage from the outside. five seconds left in the first half. raymond felton pulls up and hits the three-pointer. this one was tied going into halftime. third quarter, knicks starting to pull away. felton finds some room behind the arc and knocks down the jumper for three. knicks had 18 three-pointers in the game and blow out the heat, 112-92. the knicks have won five straight and have the best record in the east at 14-4. >> mika, you now officially blow away mr. jonathan capehart for sports reading. >> really? no, he's got his own special flair. i cannot take capehart on
sports. >> the knicks are missing three of their top players and they're still doing well. >> amazing. there you go. and i was wondering about that. >> i knew you were. >> sleeplessly. coming up -- oh, boy -- say bye-bye. >> there it is. >> aww, it's going to be okay. you're going to look good. it's going to be an improvement. we're 19 minutes away. we're slashing the 'stache. david axelrod, true to his word. we raised over $1 million. the mustache goes. that and also up next, the "must-read opinion pages." keep it right here on "morning joe." i always wait until the last minute.
can i still ship a gift in time for christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. capella university understands back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at capella.edu 44 past the hour. time now for the "must-read opinion pages."
let's start with david brooks. he writes in "the new york times," in part this. over the past month, the republican party has changed far more than i expected. there are increasing signs that house republicans are willing to unite behind speaker john boehner so he can cut a deal to avert the fiscal cliff. there has been an epidemic of open-mindedness as republicans try to win minority votes and create a version of their party that can be competitive in states like connecticut and california. the republicans may still blow it. if president obama is flexible and they don't meet him part way, republicans would contribute to a recession that would discredit them for a decade. but they are moving in the right direction and moving fast. these are first steps, and encouraging ones. >> really encouraging. and it's not just what they're saying. it's how they're saying it. eric cantor came on. we've all, i think at times, even i as a conservative, who would vote probably along with eric cantor 99% of the time.
saw him at times over the past couple years being a bit more obstructionist than i think was good for the party. i thought i loved his tone the other day. what did he focus on? he focused on jobs, on proving that conservatism actually helped all americans, not 53%, not 47%. and yesterday when i talked to jim demint on the phone, i expected to hear one thing. instead i heard another. which is we've all been chained to this republican message. we have got to prove again that conservatism helps all americans. we've done a terrible job delivering that message. we've elected leaders that don't believe in that message. and he talked, just like eric cantor talk ed again, not about ideology, but instead saying, how do we show people what we believe in our hearts, that we really do believe that less regulation and lower taxes and more freedom creates jobs for all americans? i'm not afraid to say it.
a rising tide lifts all boats. and when this economy picks up, when the obama economy picks up, guess what? president obama's rising tide will lift all boats. >> here's exactly -- >> that's reality. >> we talk a lot about rebranding a party. what a brand is in essence is a set of values. they're not changing their revalues, they're recasting them, repositioning them. that's what rebranding does. and the jindals of the world get it. >> jindal does get it. i said to jim demint, listen, i remember in '93 and '94 -- and richard, i know you remember this going back to the 1980s -- the intellectual power was all on the conservative side. we were the trendsetters. what john engler was doing up in michigan, what other reform-minded governors were doing across the country on health care reform, on welfare reform, the republicans, conservatives, controlled it. as i said to jim yesterday, there's been an anti-intellectual strain in this party for the past four, five,
six years. it's now costing us millions of votes across the country. and millions and millions of dollars. and he seemed to get that as well. >> yeah. the good news is that the republicans have got them -- clearly have gotten the message, and they're moving faster than i ever thought they would. >> yeah. >> so i'm encouraged. >> they really are. i mean, i heard hannity right after the election started talking about immigration reform. >> immigration reform. >> krauthammer. >> you're seeing it there, on taxes, on opportunity. look, you may even see it one day on climate change. i think the debates are changing. >> this sounds so good, but then i read charles krauthammer. nothing but a power play. obama's objective in these negotiations is not economic but political. not to solve the debt crisis but to fracture the republican majority in the house. get boehner to cave, pass the tax hike with democratic votes provided by minority leader nancy pelosi and let the republican civil war begin. it doesn't even matter whether boehner gets deposed as speaker.
either way, the republican house would be neutered, giving obama a free hand to dominate washington and fashion the entitlement state of his liking. what should republicans do? stop giving stuff away. if obama remains intransigent, let him be the one to take us over the cliff, and then let the new house, which is sworn in weeks before the president, immediately introduce and pass a full across-the-board restoration of the george w. bush tax cuts. >> so i don't think that's inconsistent with anything that i just said. i agree with him 100%. what have i been saying for a week? do not cave. compromise. do not cave. if the president doesn't want to meet us halfway on massive entitlement cuts, on reforming those systems to save medicare and medicaid, social security, cutting defense, reforming the taxes, then do not meet -- if he doesn't want to meet halfway, but i've got to tell you, i am heartened with what i saw in the president's tone yesterday. i loved hearing him tell a group
of americans yesterday, hey, we're going to get this thing done. i feel good about it. i love that he agreed to sit down with john boehner one on one. richard, you've done negotiations on all levels. i really liked the tone the president was sending. and by the way, i felt like charles krauthammer did a couple of days ago. because the president seemed to be saying -- and you've said it, too, along with geithner -- we won. the other side's going to cave. the president's changing his tone, and i think that is great not only for the american people, i think it's great for the president. >> i think you're right. there's a sense that people have once again remembered the basic rule of negotiation. in a funny sort of way, you've got to help the guy you're negotiating with because you need a partner to succeed. you're seeing a little bit of that creep into this. but the big question's going to be one you just raised, which is entitlements because you can't get there with discretionary spending. and i think still to be seen is whether entitlements join taxes as part of this package. >> and we shouldn't get there with discretionary spending. >> you can't.
>> you can't, you shouldn't. >> right. >> when you start slashing education, when you start slashing r&d, transportation -- >> it's over. >> -- what you're doing is, you're slashing about 3%, 4% of the budget. and you're leaving the parts of the budget that blow a hole in the deficit and destroy this economy over the next 20 years. >> by the way, we won't go over the cliff for all the reasons we're talking about. even if we do, my friends on the street tell me, it's not a disaster. it's baked in. because we're going to get it done even after the fact. so you're talking about a few points in the market. we're just moments away, joe and i will be removing -- >> oh, no! there it is! >> ow! >> it's all for a great cause. >> i don't know if it's that good. >> i don't know. is this going to be good television or kind of yucky? okay. we'll be right back. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future.
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♪ lord have mercy ♪ i said oh domino so joe, as you write your check, i'm going to start the cutting. there's david axelrod. we're going to take off that mustache. >> oh, my gosh. >> i've never used one of these before. >> where's susan? >> like which side -- >> is there a doctor in the house? >> do you go like this? that's going to be interesting. >> i know. >> i'll practice a little bit. >> is there insurance on the set? >> ooh, that's sharp.
all right. we're going to take off his mustache for charity. he's walking slow. >> that's a slow walk. look at that. he is not happy. >> i think this is going to be okay. what do you think? are you all right with it? >> i'm going to faint. >> all right. we'll also talk politics. we'll be right back. [ tylenol bottle ] nyquil what are you doing? [ nyquil bottle ] just reading your label. wait...you relieve nasal congestion? sure don't you? [ nyquil bottle ] dude! [ female announcer ] tylenol® cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion. nyquil® cold and flu doesn't. now's a good time to think about your options. are you looking for a plan that really meets your needs? and your budget? as you probably know, medicare only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans,
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>> we're going to raise $1 million. and after you get $1 million for epilepsy research and cure, you're going to cut your mustache off here on "morning joe." deal? >> oh, wow. say good-bye. this is going to be weird. >> it is going to be a little strange. >> how do you think i feel? >> david axelrod is with us. i asked him if there was anything i could do for him right now. he said, "do you have a xanax?" >> aww. we did it. >> here with david axelrod along with donny deutsch and mark mckinnon still with us. so let's talk really quickly about the people that have stepped forward. of course, president obama gave a very generous contribution, as did his close personal friend, donald trump. >> yes. >> donald trump. >> who actually was one of the first to step up. >> he was. >> contributed in a big way. mark cuban contributed in a real way. our good friend yusef. >> what is this? this is incredible. >> senator cole. a founding member.
>> yes. he was one of our early supporters. great guy. great friend. >> tom hanks, our good friend carole king, also george clooney. >> nice. >> and certainly we thank them for all of their generosity here. you say beyond that, what really moved you were people that couldn't afford to give the big checks but gave smaller checks and just wrote you the most heartfelt notes. >> it was extraordinary. we have more than 2,500 contributors to slash the 'stache, and a lot of whom who have been impacted by epilepsy, who have children often impacted by epilepsy who lost loved one. 50,000 a year die from epilepsy. and their notes would move you to tears. what started as kind of a lark, when i maiden educated bet on the election and you made a foolish one. >> oh, now. he's going to go there. >> florida.
just florida. >> florida. let me just say, what does it say that the former congressman from florida got florida wrong? >> ooh. >> i always say, if republicans are going to lose florida, we're in big, big trouble. >> i know. i should not be saying these things when this man is going to be around my throat with a straight razor. >> exactly. do we use this or the electric? i've never done this before. i'm dead serious. >> has someone suggested a riding mower? >> has any counsel been talked to about this? >> no. >> liabilities here. >> mika and willie and i operate under the belief that it's better to ask for forgiveness after. so david, let's talk politics for a second while mika practices with the blade. >> you're making me awfully nervous. >> i'll practice on my arm. >> i was heartened yesterday, the president telling some american people he was with that he felt good. that he thought they were going
to make a deal. john boehner asked to go one on one. the president said sure. these are -- i think these are really positive developments. >> yeah, i hope and i believe that to be the case. look, i don't think anybody wants to go over the cliff. and there are reasonable answers to this. there are much more complicated problems than this problem. >> right. >> and everyone knows sort of the parameters of the answer and the question is whether we can get there. >> pretty close. and also, we've got both sides talking about -- john boehner said this a day or two ago, i thought it was telling -- he said all of our money is going to come from the rich as far as the taxes go. they're, of course, not talking about raising the rates or trying to close loopholes. >> we have to resolve that question. >> right, it's a big question to be resolved, but at least both sides are talking about taking money from the same pocket. >> we're obviously light years ahead of where we were before the election. elections have consequences. that's the great thing about democracy. and i think you're seeing the impact of what happened on november 6th. >> david, i know you campaigned
on raising rates, but if you get the revenue, why is there a fixation -- >> the problem is you can't get the revenue, mark, that is necessary simply by closing loopholes for the wealthy. and what's important here is that we solve the problem and we do it in a balanced way. >> do you know how much you get if -- because if we're talking about math as the president said to bloomberg a couple of days ago, then math is math. >> math is math. >> it's not ideology here. so can you tell us how far we can get going john boehner's way? have you guys figured that out? you're saying 1.6. we all believe it's going to end up around $1.2 trillion. >> i'm not a budget expert. high sense is that, you know, closing the deductions and leaving off the table, you know, some of the things that people will want to leave off the charitable and so on, you're not talking -- we think we need $1.6 trillion.
in revenue over the next ten years. and this would not even get us halfway there. i mean, 800 that speaker boehner's talking about would not be satisfied by simply closing -- deductions, and they have not identified the 800 -- how they would get to the $800 billion. so, look, there are very smart people who are meeting and talking about this. you know, i'm encouraged that that's going on. >> david, what is -- the good news is that mano a mano speaker and the president are getting in a room together. what does that actually look like? >> what do you mean? >> i mean, you have these two guys in a room. are there other aides? is it the two of them? does the president go in and open up with a remark -- like when the two leaders get in a room, describe inside the room. >> i think they're having
conversations by themselves and then their aides go and act. >> do they both go into that room basically with a number where -- is there any flexibility for them in that room? >> let me say, at this point, i think both the president and the speaker are very fluent in the basic numbers. they've been living with them for some time now. so as i said, i don't think that there's a lot of mystery about this. the politics has to be traversed. they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's naive of me to even bring this up -- but wouldn't that be important for them to
take on what those are together and shoulder to shoulder? >> what i remember last summer when the president said to boehner essentially, let's lock arms and jump off the, you know, at that point it was a different kind of cliff, together. it's going to require both leaders. each is going to have to make sacrifices. in order to get this done. and i think that, you know, i think everybody recognizes the consequences of not getting it done. >> so how do you tell republicans that won't support a tax increase unless they believe entitlement reform's coming? how do you do a deal before the end of the year while having republicans with -- having the confidence that the president will step forward with real entitlement reform? >> first, obviously, in order to solve the problem and achieve the $4 trillion in savings, you're going to have to do a balanced package including all of these things.
and there are ways -- i'm sure, joe, and you're knowledgeable in these things. >> i doubt it. >> well, you pretend to be knowledgeable on these things. >> i hate to pretend. >> you know, there are ways to set targets and have alternative things happen. >> right. >> if those targets aren't hit. i think there are a variety of approaches to this. yes, yes. >> here's one approach right here. >> how does that work? >> that looks better to me than the razor. >> maybe i'll do that. >> i'm going to make a suggestion, a marketing suggestion. i would go with the norelco. >> we're going to do that. i think so. mark mckinnon, again -- >> full disclosure, are they a client of yours? >> no. >> here's a solution, david. if the targets are generally in the right area, and i think there's general agreement about what those revenue targets and cut targets are, why don't we let the president just identify
the cuts and let boehner identify the revenue? >> huh. >> can i answer that for you? >> yes. >> because john boehner is going to focus more, based on his first offer, on discretionary spending. it's like we said before. do you really want to slash transportation, education, r&d? you don't have the courage to go after the entitlement programs. and i say this, as you know, to my republican party as well as to your democratic party -- >> yeah, no, as frightening as this whole mustache thing was, sitting in the green room and listening to you and agreeing with you so wholeheartedly -- >> disturbed you, didn't it. >> what we can't do is eat our seed corn. >> right. >> education, research and development and energy. these are things that are central to our ability to grow the economy, to prepare people for the economy. >> it's such a small part of the budget. >> i understand. but you see, here's what's going on.
there are two kinds of approaches to this. the one approach says we've got this deficit problem, and we want to address it. the other is the norquist approach, which is really more about reducing government to its irreducible core. and that is an indiscriminate sort of slashing. that's the wrong path for the country. and that's the path we can't take. >> things have changed so much since i was there. you talk about discretionary versus mandatory. when i was there back in the '90s, you could actually go after discretionary spending and move towards a balanced budget. we're way past that now. you're talking about 11% for domestic discretionary spending. that means everything, outside of defense, outside of medicare, outside of medicaid, outside of social security. that's about 85% of the budget. >> and we just made some pretty deep cuts last summer. >> right. so when you have a party saying we're going to balance the budget by going after education,
transportation, r&d, i mean, energy, you're basically going after your seed corn while china is doubling on education. china is doubling down on r&d. china is doubling down on energy research. we can't do that for economic reasons. >> right. >> i like winning. >> budget is about policy, and it creates your priorities. >> the other thing is, there is a big issue -- big economic issue beyond jobs and beyond the deficits. and that is how do we create an economy in which the middle class is growing, in which people work hard and can get ahead? and all the things that you mentioned are important to that task. so we can't give up on that. >> two other points also. if by going after discretionary -- that's just another form of kicking the can down the road. you know, if you're not going to invest in education or the future, that is no different than not attacking -- >> can i also tell you also, it is -- it's also being a doctor. i always talk about being a doctor that opens up a patient,
sees cassi s cancer, closes you you're fine. that's also a doctor who decides they're going to decide to take off a wart. erskine bowles said every dime washington took in went to pay off medicaid, medicare, social security. you've got to go after entitlements in a way that saves entitlements. >> let had he ask yme ask david question. >> one point, if you just do rates, you don't really get the rich because the rich have the loopholes. that's why i'm suggesting -- and the new york times raises that -- shows a large majority of families making up to $300,000 as well as hundreds of thousands of families with larger incomes would not pay taxes at a higher margin. >> obviously, it will be a combination of the two. the rates will get you part of the way. the deductions will get you the rest of the way. >> we're going to save your question because we have to make a simulcast with the "today" show when we come back. everybody wants to see this
40-year-old mustache coming off. they're getting the stuff ready for us, joe. people are lining up to be a part of facial hair history. the "today" show jumping in. donald trump getting a piece of the action. it's all happening next on "morning joe." i still don't understand, do i go right or left? do i cut in? i don't get it. ♪ i am the ghost of cookies past. residue. so gross. well you didn't use new pam, so it looks like you're "stuck" with me. [ female announcer ] bargain brand cooking spray leaves annoying residue. that's why there's new pam.
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♪ make no mistake where you are ♪ we'll give david a choice. >> i've got to say -- >> this or this? what do you think? >> this is some sort of intelligence test. >> i'll put this down. how's that? and joe, you have -- okay. so we're going to be -- >> we're good. we're good. >> -- shaving off this 40-year-old mustache. not a big dale. >> how are you feeling, david, before the execution? >> faint. >> a bit faint? >> yeah. mika's standing over me with a straight razor. >> do you have any last requests? does your mustache have any last requests? >> i don't know, i've been talking to it all night.
>> would you like another little smudge of mustard? >> why? why? why do we have to do this? >> for a good cause. and we'll get into that in one moment. susan, this is -- you've never known him without that thing. >> never, ever. i've seen pictures in childhood, that's about it. >> right. you met him when the village people were popular. he grew the 'stache, went around singing "macho man," and now it's going to be gone. >> you know, it was very dark then and it's lightened a little bit with age. >> i have said to people -- >> we are joining the "today" show right now. >> oh, we are? >> on the set of msnbc's "morning joe." >> hi, mika. good morning, mika, david, joe, susan and david's mustache. you have about ten seconds to live. >> and good night, david's mustache. >> david, we're going to be cutting off your mustache in just a minute. why? >> well, we're cutting it off because there are people who have lost a lot more than a mustache to epilepsy, 50,000 people a year lose their lives,
people like our daughter, lauren, mike barnicle's wonderful daughter, julia, have lost so much because of epilepsy and have fought through some very difficult times. so we're trying to raise some money for research, and we have. we made a challenge a month ago, if we could raise a million dollars in a month, i would shave my mustache off on this show. >> we did it. >> and we did it. >> willie, what do you think? >> i don't know how to use this. >> i don't think i would trust mika. >> does this hurt? >> did you practice? >> no, i've never done this before. >> is there a professional in the house? >> it's a concept. >> should i let a professional do it? >> leave it to the professional. >> steve, take it away. >> here's the man. >> i don't think i want to see this. >> i am, yeah. i'm grateful for a professional. >> okay. so while that mustache goes away, i'm not sure we want to see this. >> no shrieking. >> four years ago i had a scar under my mustache.
>> joe, i thought you were going to step in with a straight razor in this operation. what happened there? >> mika was wielding the straight razor -- >> let me just say, i was not going to let joe scarborough near my neck with a straight razor. >> i did some diplomatic negotiations between the two. >> david, i think you're a courageous man to be chatting while you have a razor right in your face. but since you are, i'll ask you, how attached are you to this mustache? i think you've had it longer than i've been alive. >> well, i've been staring at it for 40 years, savannah. i'm very attached to it. i was up all night, to be honest with you. it's a little unsettling. but like i said, people have lost a lot more than mustaches. >> willie, now we're going to the straight razor. >> here we go. >> oh, god! >> turn it over to joe now. >> joe scarborough's sweeney todd moment. >> we were just talking about sweeney todd. willie, can you imagine all the mustard that this mustache has absorbed in chicago in comiskey
park over the last 40 years. >> this is like an archaeological dig. >> oh, my lord. >> that's a good look. >> that is a good look. >> does susan have a microphone on? i'm curious how she feels about the mustache. >> so susan, we have one more minute. while this is occurring, talk really quickly about your daughter and how she inspired you and david to make this a mission in your life. >> our daughter struggles -- or what inspired us to get involved, there was a real void out there for people crying for research in epilepsy. so that's what this is all about. that's what cure epilepsy.org is all about, and it's been a tremendous year, and this is a great way to cap it off. >> you know, savannah and willie, some unusual suspects stepped forward to help out. donald trump was one of the first to call, contributed $100,000. mark cuban contributed $200,000. the president stepped in, george clooney, tom hanks, carole king.
>> yusef, $200,000. >> it's a great cause. >> it took david's mustache to bring donald trump and president obama together. on that issue. >> guys, we're going to check back in with you when it's all said and done. and thanks so much for letting us share this moment. >> savannah, thanks for joining us. we're almost done here. >> we're almost there. >> i have to say, susan -- >> i'm liking this. >> i think this is a net gain for you. >> yeah. >> oh, my lord. >> wow! >> now, are your friends at the white house watching, david? >> yeah. laughing, i'm sure. >> laughing. we'll just say their tail off. >> a very brave dad. >> unbelievable. donny deutsch, can you believe this? >> it's good, isn't it? >> donny's stylish. >> looks good. >> you think? >> come on up, donny. >> he's an image guy. >> by the way, we're going to give him mckinnon's scarf now, and i think we're all good to go now. >> oh, my gosh.
david axelrod slashed the 'stache. >> it's good. it's good. we're still married. >> give him a kiss. >> i just want to leave with the same woman i came in with. >> and joining us now on the phone, get this, david, real estate mogul and generous contributor to slash the 'stache, donald trump. donald, how does he look? >> i think he looks great. i will say, though, he always reminded me of my father. you know, my father was a handsome guy. his hair is the same, and my father always had a mustache. maybe he's going to have to go back to the mustache someday, but he looks great. >> thanks, donald. and i appreciate, you were one of the first people to come in with a big contribution. and it really meant so much to us. we haven't always agreed on everything. >> not really. >> but i really appreciate it. >> we agree on one thing. first of all, this is a great cause. and second of all, david called me six months ago. he had a dinner with my daughter, ivanka. and he said, what a great young woman she is. and i said, boy, has he got me.
it was over. so, you know, i appreciated that, david. >> what i said was apparently the apple does fall far from the true. >> that's true. i agree with that. >> she is a great gal. >> david and i were talking about it, and we were both shocked. your kids, they're remarkable. they must have a wonderful, wonderful mother. >> well, they have a great mother. you know, as far as i'm concerned, i just do the best i can with them. but they are -- they've done an outstanding job. >> yeah. >> you've done a great job. >> donald, you've been generous with people that we know and causes that are important. so we do thank you very much. and we thank everyone who has contributed so much money to meet the -- to actually surpass our goal. >> funding research. >> of $1 million. >> may find that elusive cure. you know, your dollars are going directly to that research. that's worth a mustache and a lot more. >> thank you so much, donald. we greatly appreciate it. >> you're brave.
>> now, david's bleeding. >> i thought you were a professional. >> bleeding out! would you like to give your husband a kiss without a mustache? >> wipe the blood off. >> wipe the blood right off of there. >> my god, call 911. >> you did a great job. steve from e-shave. awesome. >> thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> the 'stache is slashed. when we come become, a preview of "meet the press" with david gregory and "washington post" columnist eugene robinson. keep it right here on "morning joe." we're at walmart talking about the low price guarantee
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that is something, man. can you believe that? >> so well done. >> television history. >> television history. he did it for a great cause, a million dollars-plus to cure epilepsy. mika, i think let the record reflect, she's just horrible, horrible at slashing the 'stache. we had to call in the professionals. still ahead this morning, we're
going to be getting the new monthly jobs report and also going to break those numbers down live and cnbc's brian sullivan. when we come back, david gregory's going to be here along with eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winner from "the washington post." stick around. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.
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get the facts at earnedasay.org. let's keep medicare... and social security strong for generations to come. ♪ come take my hand the week before the storm, you were out there, president obama couldn't lead his way out of a paper bag with a fistful of 20s. and then right after the storm was over, you were, like, this man is a leader. like doesn't that -- doesn't that tell you something about the game? what does that tell you about the game? >> what it tells me is that people have different skill sets at different times.
that's what it tells me. >> i see. so he wasn't a leader until you needed leadership. >> maybe -- maybe until he was presented with a stark opportunity. >> an opportunity. >> to lead. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 32 past the hour. joining us now from washington, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. and pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson joins us as well. joining us here on set in new york, democratic representative from missouri and chairman of the congressional black caucus, congressman emanuel cleaver. good to have all of you on. >> i think we missed an opportunity. we had a guy sitting in the green room with a mustache whose last name is cleaver. >> oh, my goodness, you're right. >> we could have added him. they suggested perhaps we could get haley barbour to come in and
do it. alex corson said? >> stephanie cutter. >> stephanie cutter. you have quite an insight about whether you would ever have your mustache slashed. >> never trust a black man unless he's born in hawaii without a mustache. >> gene robinson, do you concur? >> is any mustache safe in the world these days? i'm scared. i'm scared. >> i don't think it is. well, congressman, how are we doing in this effort to avoid the fiscal cliff? do you think it may -- we're encouraged around here at least that the president and john boehner are going to be talking face to face. >> are we naive? >> a little bit. >> sad without a second's hesitation. >> wow! >> look, it's a simple deal, but the circumstances are not simple. and i think we're going to get a
deal, on my optimistic side, we're going to get a deal. my pessimistic side is it may be later. we may do something between now and january 1st, but there is no way we're going to do what needs to be done between now and december 31st. >> is that a good thing in terms of doing the longer term? >> we've got to deal with the payroll tax, or many americans are going to end up losing about $1,000 to $1,500 a year out of their checks. we've got to figure out how to do the debt ceiling without causing the bond rating agencies to downgrade us again. and, of course, we've got to deal with reducing the deficit. and we've got to define entitlements. when you say we've got to do something with the entitlements, i would agree. but what are we including in entitlements? social security an entitlement? is ssi an entitlement? or are we just talking about medicare? which is what i'm talking about.
>> yeah, exactly. and certainly medicare and medicaid are the two great drivers of the entitlements. of course, medicaid always seems easier to cut because that's not a middle-class entitlement. that helps the poor. >> right. >> are you concerned that both sides may be more willing to cut medicaid and leave a middle-class entitlement like medicare on the table? >> no. i think wooe ge've got to do medicare. it's going to pull this economy down. we've got to deal with it. and i think most rational people, including democrats, realize that we've got to make some cuts or deal with medicare. but, you know, let's have some means testing. >> right. yeah. >> i'm for it. >> because i don't think that cutting benefits at this time is going to go over well. we can do means testing and reduce the payments. and frankly, one of the things we've got to do is, you know, we
end up losing billions of dollars a year, $43 billion a year, through fraud and people actually mismanaging medicare. we've got to tighten it up. >> david gregory, when we even just listen to the last 20 seconds of what the congressman said, it just seems sort of impossible that something actually extremely legitimate and forward thinking can actually happen before the deadline. i mean, that's one of the problems that washington is confronting right now, is it not? >> i don't think it's impossible at all. one of the things the president did with that very aggressive first offer, he may have put a lot of people off, but he got his base kind of dug in and enthusiastic. that may end up being a bad thing in the end. but for now, they are behind him, which actually gives him some operating room. and the truth is, as you've been discussing, speaker boehner's got some room to operate as well. i spent the last couple days on capitol hill talking to members on both sides.
there is a feeling that boehner's got room among conservatives to make a deal, maybe fold on the rates issue, let them go up if he can get this medicare deal. that's still a big question, as the chairman says. whether there is a big deal to be had in terms of actual medicare cuts that will be good enough for republicans to say okay, we can take some tough medicine on tax rates because we're getting kind of a bigger deal. but i think for the president, he has an opportunity here to own the debt issue. he can be part of a big deal that he can sign, therefore he gets the credit, he owns it, to bring down the debt to, you know, usher in entitlement reform and to change the tax code in a way that he campaigned on and that he wants. that's got to be pretty attractive to him to try to pursue that deal. >> gene robinson, as he pursues that deal, does he face some of the same challenges that john boehner faces? can he get too far ahead of his own democratic caucus if he gets a
aggressive on entitlement reform? and i'm talking specifically about medicare here. >> you know, he does face some similar challenges. they're not exactly the same. there's not an absolute line drawn by most democrats, but i think most democrats would be willing to talk about some sort of means testing. but that's a difficult conversation to have in a couple of weeks, i think, for the democratic base. he could get out ahead. he does have a lot of running room right now. i guess i kind of join congressman cleaver in being a bit skeptical that they get a big deal by the end of the year. i see more of a stopgap deal that might lead to a bigger deal. and that only because republicans are really motivated to try to get something before the end of the year rather than go off the cliff and then have less bargaining power or a worse
position from which to negotiate in january. >> gene, you're from south carolina. let's talk about demint really quickly and his possible replacement. certainly i know you're not a big supporter of the republican party as far as -- well, anything. wouldn't it be something if you had a guy, an african-american, from the corner of the confederacy where the civil war started rising up and becoming the next senator from south carolina? >> you're talking about me, joe? >> talking -- >> governor haley has told me that i'm not going to be nominated. >> i don't know. if not you, then how about congressman tim scott? he's a conservative guy but was raised in rural south carolina with a single mom, poor. >> mm-hmm. >> and could be the next senator there. >> well, that would be a big deal. it would be a really big deal in south carolina. it would be a big deal for the
republican party. it wouldn't fix all that ails with the party, certainly, and would be seen as a cynical sort of move by a lot of people. but if it happened, it would be a fact, and it would be a fact that here's a black u.s. senator from the deep south. that would be significant, i think. and a big step for the party. >> do you have a view on this, congressman? >> i do. i have a view on almost everything. >> you fit right in, my man. you fit right in. >> the good news is that there is revolutionary thinking going on in the republican party. tim scott is a conservative, 1,000 times more conservative than me, but i like tim scott because he's a good guy. he doesn't say crazy things. he doesn't attack people with
nasty labels. so he's a good guy. keep in mind, however, that -- and i think this is a mistake the republican party has made -- that they assume that if they reach out to african-americans, meaning run radio spots on black radio, that that's reaching out. that's not. there are policy changes that are going to take place. and tim scott's going to have essentially the same policies that demint had. he's going to embrace those policies. >> gene, i want to ask you a question, and then i want the chairman to answer it. it's interesting you mentioned as far as the scott choice, people look at it cynically. i'm going to ask you as an african-american and as a friend, would you rather have a senator who agrees with more of your political views who would be white or hispanic versus an african-american that doesn't? i guess that's kind of getting to your cynical point, if you will. >> well -- >> and it's kind of a personal question, but it goes right to your point. i'm curious as a black man, how do you react to that? okay, great, but --
>> as an african-american from south carolina, given the range -- governor haley is not going to appoint a senator with my policy views. she's just not. i'd rather have an african-american senator coming from south carolina than anybody else, i think, just about that she would appoint. but in general, if somebody else were doing the appointing, i think the policies count more. the policies count more because that's what affects people. and in this day and age, i think that's what's really important. >> i mean, so he basically said, all things being equal in this case, tim scott looks like a great choice. i would agree. david gregory, first of all, let me ask, do you have this weekend lined up yet or not? there's so much stuff going on. we've got the budget talks. we've got syria. we've got egypt. we've got afghanistan still in the news. which direction do you think you guys are going to go this
weekend weekend? >> certainly whether we're closer to a deal on the fiscal cliff and a debate between senator durbin and congressman mccarthy of california. so two top lieu tenants who are negotiating this. we will be talking a lot about syria today and covering that on the program as well because i think that's moving very quickly. and it gets, i think, a broader question, too, about what is the obama foreign policy in a second term? what is the vision for a region that i think could pull him in and occupy a lot of his time? >> what do you make of the ongoing battle over the next secretary of state? hillary clinton finally came out and gave a strong endorsement to susan rice. some people, including maureen dowd, would suggest maybe that took a little longer than was necessary. >> it was striking. it was striking how long it took. and it didn't go unnoticed, obviously. >> she's traveling. >> you see john kerry being embraced by republicans. i think a lot of democrats would also like him to be the next secretary of state. where are we in that fight?
we have so many issues that are on the front pages now. i think the president needs to get his person in as soon as possible. >> well, my sense is that secretary clinton weighing in perhaps suggests that the nomination is coming soon. i've talked to people on all sides of this. there's no question that benghazi continues to be litigated. even on the democratic side, there is some division on this. i've talked to democratic senators who have questioned whether she has the standing, the stature, to be secretary of state. so obviously there's some division about how people view susan rice. but here's the bottom line. she's very close to the president of the united states. she is a key voice in his national security team. that's what could ultimately win the day. john kerry has been campaigning hard for it. he's done everything this administration has asked in their first term. overseas, been quite engaged as chairman of the foreign relations committee. so he's certainly a very strong
candidate. but at this point, even people close to the president suggest there's just a bit of a question mark about how much of a fight he wants and how much it will come down to getting somebody he believes in and he's close to into that job. >> congressman cleaver, your thoughts on susan rice as a potential nominee. >> well, i think susan rice is imminently qualified and capable of being secretary of state. my only concern is political, and it is that the president uses up so much of his good will as he begins his second term that it does not last long enough for him to get through some of the major initiatives that we all hope will be brought forth like an energy policy. there are some -- there are dangers either way, if he goes with kerry, there is a political concern about the seat in massachusetts. so i don't know. it's not going to be an easy decision for the president, and nothing seems to have ever been
easy for him since he was sworn in. >> let me ask really quickly as a new session of congress is sworn in in january. you're chairman of the congressional black caucus. what is your top goal for the new session? >> to support very strongly the president's jobs bill. in all of the discussions that we're having about the debt ceiling and the deficit, there's little, if any, talk about jobs. that's what we've got to create. and the economy has changed appreciably since the 2008 recession began, which means that many of those jobs that were there in 2008 just don't exist anymore. technology has eliminated them. so we've got to train people. and if we don't get job training to equip our work force, we're going to still have to go abroad to find people to do the work we need. >> jobs. yep. go ahead. >> i wanted to mention one thing, mika, back to demint for a second that ties into a new agenda, looking forward in
congress which is who fills that void for tea party activism when demint goes outside of congress? it's very interesting this week, i've talked to conservatives who say they have to be much more of a worker party than a boss party, thinking more about the workers instead of the people who run business. there's that realization. look at marco rubio's speech talking about the american dream beginning with janitors and other kinds of workers. ryan at that same dinner this week talking about needing to alleviate poverty. there is this -- all these cross currents in the republican party, and it comes around the issue of jobs. it comes around the issue of the fiscal cliff talks about what the party wants to be. whether there's going to be a tea party 2 or whether there's something of a vacuum that doesn't get filled with demint leaving the senate. >> all right. david, thank you so much. we'll be watching "meet the press" this sunday as we do every sunday. eugene, thank you as well. your latest column online at washingtonpost.com. >> guard that mustache, gene. >> i'm going to guard it with my life. >> and congressman emanuel cleaver, great to have you on
set with us. coming up, nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd. and later in the show, "the economist" crunched the numbers and came up with the best countries to be born in in 2013. and the united states does not top their list. we'll find out who does ahead on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] there are plenty of reasons to be jolly
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up with jim margolies. a red state/blue state effort. this entire campaign we talked about old people, rich people, women. you should have never really came up with children and yet we know that's where our future -- we have to start investing in kids. so, for example, ann romney's horse got nine times more coverage than children's issues did in this campaign. why? they don't have any bloggers. they don't vote. there's no constituency behind children, and yet look at what's happening. 16 million more are in poverty now, children are, than 1962. health problems doubled. a quarter of our kids have chronic health ailments. we're 23rd in math. we're having all these discussions about the fiscal cliff. we need to start thinking about what are our priorities because that's what the budget decisions mean we have to make tough decisions about where to invest and we know from research, david
brooks writes about this all the time, money spent early on has a much greater return on investment than trying to fix the problem down the road. >> you're a message guy and one decision has to be made, you can't just sell we have to help the children. >> yeah. >> it has to be one of those issues. they're all important. it doesn't get you anywhere. >> no, i agree. we're trying to get the people to get their attention. >> is it health care? is it poverty? >> well, part of the health care and portable care act. the real return on investment is early investment in pre-k, early education, nurturing, bonding with mothers, all that kind of early pre-k investment is where the real payoff comes. so that's where i think -- it's across the board and attention across the spectrum about kids, their health, education, welfare generally but i think the real return is going to be the intervention early on between birth and kindergarten. >> we talk about entitlement
spending versus discretionary spending and maybe some people's eyes glaze over. but entitlement spending, we are taking care of our seniors. we need to take care of our seniors. you talk about discretionary spending, again, a very small part of the budget that is investment. that type of investment you are talking about and these decisions we make today impact generations that will follow in 1933 when fdr launched social security seniors were the poorest segment of society. today they're the wealthiest and do you know who the poorest segment? children. these decisions we make on budgets -- >> exactly. seniors are doing great. we spend so much time talking about it but they're doing pretty well. per capita $26,000 per senior, we spend $11,000 on our kids that we need to even out.
>> monday on "morning joe" by the way, former white house budget director peter orszag. >> we have to talk to them about these issues. it's a great point. we don't talk about kids. we don't talk about the poor. not in these campaigns. coming up next with just 24 days to go until the fiscal cliff deadline, speaker john boehner wants negotiations to be just between him and the president. will this be washington's last hope? i'm getting a deal done. keep it here on "morning joe." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. in what world do potatoes, bacon and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.
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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everyone, as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have donny deutsch, mark mckinnon, and richard haass. >> let's start -- there's so much to talk about but, richard, let's start in egypt. absolutely fascinating. i think a lot of people across the world were so heartened by the democratic, we thought, perhaps uprising that was going on in egypt. certainly we all knew to overthrow a dictator of 30 years, even if he was an american ally, and now you have mohamed morsi behaving like,
well, a dictator. and he's now got roughly 39, 40 political parties in egypt rising up against him. it is a mess. >> what you're seeing in places like egypt is the difference between democracy and majorityism. people like morsi win elections but winning elections is the easy part. the question is whether they can govern. the question is whether there's any tolerance for minorities, for multiple points of view. he did a power grab. there's now pushback. i think it's wrong to assume, though, that all the people pushing back are necessarily democrats. >> no. >> a lot of people -- >> but everybody is pushing back, and certainly, certainly elements of mubarak's regime are looking for an opportunity to regain some power. >> absolutely. >> you also have christians pushing back, other islamist that is are pushing back, some even more extreme. you have all elements pushing back here. but i'm absolutely bewildered as to why morsi thought he could get away with this.
>> these are guys, morsi, in jail or in the streets or in opposition for their entire careers, they come into office. and why would we think that they spent all their time out of office reading the federalist papers? they didn't. they come into office and, in a sense, the only political game they know how to play is the old game. consolidate power. >> seize it. >> the muslim brotherhood, if he does not end up consolidating power, and he usually does, he has caused such damage to the muslim brotherhood brand in egypt. here is a movement, a powerful movement, a resistance movement for 30 years that promised they would not seek power if mubarak left. mubarak left. then they sought power. then they seized power. then they sought ultimate power. the egyptians, as you know, you can go back to the attack in '98
against japanese tourists, they are repelled by islamic extremism. they have been in the past. >> that's the good news here. the same type of coalescing of forces that pushed out mubarak seems to be pushing back against him. that told you something about the fabric and nature. there is some civil society. there is a sense of a balance between government and that's the good news. whether they can take that and translate it and what we've seen is that hasn't happened yet and that's the thing that's playing out. we don't have a lot of influecee them, something that looks like a democratic process but at the end of the day egyptians will have to work it out and it will be important. people should never forget this is, according to a third of the arab world, and cairo is one of
the great centers of the islamic world. what happened here is repercussions that go far beyond the borders. >> no doubt about it they are the leader of the arab world. mika, also fascinating just to look at what's going on to see that the army, which has always been such a powerful force in egypt, standing on the sidelines. >> well, we also have -- >> not getting involved. >> right. we also have a crisis brewing in syria with the assad regime growing increasingly desperate. intelligence reports indicate that a chemical attack against his own people could be imminent. even russia, syria's most powerful ally, is alarmed. their foreign minister met yesterday with secretary of state hillary clinton discussing the possibility of a syria. damascus' airport a target warning civilians and airlines not to approach it.
richard, we're looking at russia. if they are, in fact, coming close, it's over. he's done. >> that's the beginning of the end. i think that's finally in play. succeeded kofi annan and trying to do a diplomatic process here is something to wok with. and it's the possibility, a threat, that the syrian regime and the russians realize that would be the syrian equivalent of jumping the shark and that their own long-term equities would be destroyed. so the russians realize that had would be too far. not on moral grounds but obviously on policy grounds so the chances i think now of saying don't do it but the russians saying if you do it, you won't be supported and possibly giving him a way out before he thinks -- he makes the decision whether to do it. this is all coming into play. what was gridlock for months has begun to open up. things are getting worse. but, also, you can actually see some opportunity here that you haven't seen in syria for over a
year. >> there are some exciting possibilities. speaking of gridlock being opened up, we might have possibly mano a mano. >> the effort to reach a deal. the effort to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff is now a two-man operation. interesting. president obama and speaker boehner, nobody else. with 24 days before a year-end deadline, "the new york times" says boehner made the request to clear the negotiation room going forward leaving it up to himself and the president to reveal automatic tax hikes and deep spending cuts. while the two men may be negotiating privately, yesterday the president took his message to the public visit iing a loca virginia family as a part of his social campaign sitting around the kitchen table, he told the famili family, he was optimistic. >> the message i think we want to send to members of congress
is this is a solvable problem. the senate has already passed a bill that would make sure the middle class taxes do not go up next year by a single dime. just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> what great news, i think, don't you think -- i love the president's tone there talking about how a deal can be done. and i was critical of him when he did a campaign in philadelphia, in pennsylvania a couple can days ago when he wasn't talking to boehner but if he's talking to boehner one-on-one and they're going to start this discussion, shouldn't they make their arguments in public and come back privately? i think this is a great step
forward. >> i think it's a terrific development. i think the president and boehner created a lot of chemistry over the years and the distractions have come from other constituencies in the room. and i think that they both understand that this is important for both their legacies and so they just deal together one-on-one as a terrific development. >> and the president and you as a business person know this and i think we all have been in a position where we're negotiating and you say, okay, you want to deal with him? we're going to cut him out and get past him and go to him. and if him is eric cantor who has to answer to a lot of conservatives in the caucus, are you that is more of a john boehner? i'm doing everything i can to prop you up just like the president of the united states, bill clinton, had to prop up newt gingrich because he knew dick armey was next. >> and ronald reagan.
the great news about this, if you really think about it, the fact that they're both publicly saying, okay, now it's mano a mano, if it doesn't work, they are the fall guys. they're not going to set themselves up this way if in some way, shape or form they both don't believe it's going to get done. this way they both look like the hero. so they would have been doing a lot more behind the scenes. okay. the two big dogs go in a room together tells me it's going to get done. >> and it tells me, also, that yesterday "the new york times" story, mark, was deadly accurate, when the "times" reported the top of the paper on a-1 that john boehner was more powerful. you never, if you're speaker of the house, say clear out, guys and gals. i'm going to go in there myself, and i'm going to bring out a deal. >> and i'm going to make the call. >> and i'm going to make the call because he wouldn't have done that last year because he would have got stabbed in the back by about 30 different very conservative tea party members.
>> no question. this is really a significant development both in terms of the equation but also for boehner in terms of not only the perception but the reality of the power that he has today. >> i also believe -- right after the election, and you guys kind of mocked me. where i -- i feel very much now hands across the aisle. where where i just feel it's a moment in time when the american public will not tolerate anything else. i think both politicians understand that. i think this is a moment in time that there's a little bit of a game changing moment i see happening out there. >> at the risk of agreeing with donny, this is -- any negotiations have two dimensions. one is the axis across the table and the other is the context. and the two shape and go back and forwards. and the context has changed. we're now seeing enough people on both sides, the republican side talking about the possibility of some increasing rates. what this tells you is there's
room for maneuver that wasn't there before so the fact that they can have a private conversation in some ways tell you is the public conversation allowing them to do it and they know they can emerge from a private conversation and sell it. and that's the fundamental change. it's not just the private. the context has changed and given them more 0 space. >> here is washington at work. >> washington at its best. somehow we found ourselves listening to harry reid on the senate floor comparing the republican party to the new york jets. >> what? >> it's not one of my favorite teams. you have a problem, three quarterbac quarterbacks, sanchez, tim tebow. mcilroy. you can't decide who their quarterback is going to be. romney is gone. he's still in the background.
we have mcconnell and boehner. who is the quarterback, mr. president? who is the quarterback? >> richard haass, a quizzical look on your face. >> normally when you play fab, you don't decide the other team's quarterback. >> right. >> that's usually for the coach to decide. so why is harry reid worried who is the quarterback on the other team? why is he even using this metaphor? is. >> why has he been running? >> this is why it's a good development. >> yeah. >> by the way, another interesting development with the leadership yesterday was mitch mcconnell tried to make a move to separate out the debt negotiation, the debt ceiling, he thought he had a power play to have them separate out the vote and embarrass democrats. they pulled together 51 votes and then he had to back off. >> he had to filibuster -- >> filibuster his own bill. >> isn't it a fascinating change, mark mckinnon. back when we were younger like ten years ago. it used to be the senate that
was the chamber where members were more respectful of each other. now watching harry reid run the senate and mitch mcconnell blast back at him, they are acting really -- and you see this all across the senate, more like we used to behave in the house. >> yeah, that emperor isn't wearing much clothes. >> do you see a point in time two politicians seem more like the parade is passing by them than mitch mcconnell and harry reid? i feel it's time to change it up. >> i have no idea why harry reid is running the democratic k caucus. i mean, maybe -- maybe he's great behind-the-scenes. but in front of the camera, he's -- >> mitch mcconnell. >> filibusters his own bill and he says such a change of magnitude requires -- >> so let's talk about filibuster reform. democrats have been complaining about the filibuster for years now since they took over the
senate. and now they have a chance to get rid of the filibuster. there's nothing in the constitution. madison wrote nothing of the filibuster. but i want everybody to hear, though, because for the past four years when we've been hearing how evil the republican party is, because they filibuster. harry reid, the democratic senate, senators like claire mccaskill, senators like gillibra gillibrand, they can all get rid of the filibuster at the beginning of january. so why don't -- if the filibuster is so evil and if the republicans are so evil for wielding the filibuster, this is very easy. just make the rules in january. forget filibuster reform. i support getting rid of the entire filibuster. let's wipe it out. so why don't we get the democrats to get rid of the
filibuster. make congress work plan, agenda items, and people across the country agree 100%. you get outside of washington, it's a no-brainer. the majority should rule. it's simple. coming 0 up, we're just minutes away from the november jobs report. we're going to bring you those numbers to cnbc's brian sullivan. also republican congressman vern buchanan on set as well as nbc news political director chuck todd and the financial times l gillian tett. first dylan dreyer with a cheek on the weekend forecast. >> we are dealing with rain across ohio and even freezing rain through eastern pennsylvania right now making roadway as little bit slippery out that way. might see a flake or two across northwestern new jersey. most of this whole mess here is a warmer air mass. that is why it is falling as mostly rain. though we are moving on into december here, we do have the
chance of showers throughout most of the morning and into the afternoon all across the northeast. temperatures will eventually warm into the mid-40s later on this afternoon. right now, though, it is only in the mid-30s. so 32 in albany could result in slippery conditions out that way. it's the northern half of the country seeing the rain right now and the cooler temperatures also in the northern part of the country before your friday forecast we are going to see a chance of rain showers across the northeast. 34 today in minneapolis so that rain could mix if with a little bit of snow. then as we start off the weekend, a little more snow mixed in back into minneapolis, the 30s, and the mid-60s in the nation's capital. 52 degrees, though, in boston. that is your latest check of the forecast. wow, the samsung galaxy s3.
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i was on the stage jach wards talking to steve van zandt and then they were looking behind me and moved away and stopped talking. so i turned around and there he was. >> and there he was. >> there he was. and he came up and he put his hand out, and so i shook his hand. i tried to be cool. i wasn't. and then he said, come on, given me a hug. and i said, all right. and i hugged him. >> did he go, come on, stop. let me go. >> no. that's always hard to judge, right? when do you stop the man hug. it's hard. >> did you give him -- you have
to give also this, the pat, or did you just go slow dance? >> no, i went slow dance. >> you've got to be kidding. >> i went slow dance. >> no pat? >> no pat, i went slow dance. but -- but then he said the most amazing thing to me. he said, it's official, we're friends. >> oh, wow. that's nice. that's nice. >> welcome back to "morning joe." with us now chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. >> stop. just stop. todd has been on your -- what is your little thing? >> it changed my life. >> you said this thing is incredible, that it will change my life forever. >> it will change your life. >> why? >> you can hold it in one hand. that's number one. hold it this one hand. it is just easy -- i have to be careful, i don't want people to see -- easy to read still. i'm supposed to show the ft
here. it's palm of your hand business, buddy. that thing -- fits in my coat pocket. that's a paperweight. >> this is a paperweight now? really? my, things move fast, don't they? >> yes, they do. >> unfortunately, it's the same price. it's not like you get a mini discount. >> you know what is interesting? >> i got it last night and already it's changed my life. >> you and alfred. >> read everything on the 6:00 a.m. show. it all worked this morning. not inside but right here. >> so also joining us assistant editor for "the financial times" gillian tett who doesn't have any contraptions. >> i have good news. this morning they're bringing back some american jobs for the apple which is great. >> we'll allow it. >> even patriotic. >> and republican represent it tiff from florida and member of the house ways and means
committee, congressman vern buchanan. vern! >> great to be here. and i was impressed with that mini when he pulled it out of his jacket. i have to get one of those. >> vern, you are saying something that has caught people's attention. politico is writing about it this morning. freeze u.s. aid to egypt. i mean, is now the time to really do that? >> it was about nine months ago and the last dictator and now with the new one he's performing like a dictator. what he's done, you know, he's working with hamas. this new rule in terms of trying to overtake the supreme court and the terms of the constitution, he has a lot of people in the street. so i'm not sure why you want to continue to give money to people that aren't friend ly to the u.. and israel, as a matter of fact, so, again, i introduced legislation today that put a freeze on aid to israel. i think the bigger picture, also -- >> egypt.
>> i'm sorry, on egypt. >> your phone is ringing back at the office. >> by the way, we're also giving $52 billion to aid in the world. >> but without them, we wouldn't have stopped the gaza fight without egypt, and without being such a huge aid giver to egypt, we wouldn't have had that influence. so how do you balance that? >> i think he's provided some leadership but the fact of the matter is this overreach in terms of the courts and everything, that's what's put everybody back in the street. i'm hopeful that we can bring democracy to the region. that's what we all want to see happening because of a stable and successful and prosperous egypt is good for the middle east and our country. the end of the day the last overreach and supporting hamas, not doing anything when they bomb 0 israel, is something that needs to be looked at. >> look at the headline here. your newspaper, "the financial times" talking about egyptian turmoil and who would have
believed that morsi would have so offended so many parties -- >> exactly. >> 40 parties right now in egypt. 39 of them are fighting back. he's put himself in a bad position very quickly. >> it's become clear that this so-called arab spring was anything but going to lead to a summer. i mean, unfortunately, what you have right now is a lot of back sliding, a lot of behavior on people revolting against where the original arab spring, and it's tragic, frankly, because the people who went out on tahrir square were very brave. they took tremendous risks. they were really saying we want to get rid of this old way of doing things, this old order, and then back to square one. the one good thing is that today's egyptian electorate is much more aware of what's going on, things like twitter and facebook can't be put back in the bottle. and you are seeing people protest again and, frankly, that is encouraging, but they deserve a lot of support from the
outside world to just show that actually, you know, there needs to be action. >> so difficult. >> we had a chance to meet with some of the protesters back then and they were so hopeful about a democracy and a constitution, and then i think he's going a little bit over the cliff right now in terms of the numbers issue. >> we'll get there. >> bad metaphor. bad metaphor. >> in terms of the overreach. and i think that's what, unfortunately, is what's happened. i think he did build up some goodwill but the last overreach is concerning to a lot of us. >> concerning to the muslim brotherhood. he has talked about damaging a brand. >> absolutely. and it's so easy sitting here to forget about the personal risk, the huge personal risk that ordinary people took to actually make the original egyptian revolution happen. and that's tragic. >> let's talk about the fiscal cliff, given the fact we're about three minutes away from the latest jobs numbers which we'll bring to you live as they
happen. chuck todd, where do we stand? it looks like one-on-one. >> the least important jobs numbers in five years. there isn't that sense of, like, is this one going to change? is. >> right, right. >> i do think it seems that everything that we all saw now the report iing is catching up. the media. i think a little bit of this hype, oh, my god, we're going over the cliff. when it was pretty clear you could see, you know, and, congressman, correct me if i'm wrong, there wasn't the stomach in the republican conference to somehow not touch the middle class tax -- not touch this middle class tax bill. that worst case scenario they could come up with and i think kimberly wrote an op-ed about how the republicans could actually say, hey, he won't deal with us, fine, we'll give him the middle class tax rates and that's it. but you could see we now it's a debate, will it be a small deal
like the one we described or the big deal? >> what do you think about boehner and the president both agreeing 0 to get together one-on-one? >> it's about time. you needed the two weeks, i think. you hate to say it. you had to kill some time. you had to let the posturing happen. that's what washington feeds on. fair enough, it's just what they do. >> does this mean that john boehner has the confidence of the republican caucus, that he can go into a negotiating room with the president and not worry about getting, you know, having to pull 12 knifes out of his back after he comes back with a proposal? >> i think the whole thing of political posturing is a big issue n. talking with him and others, there hasn't been much done the last three weeks. people want to think it's behind the scenes but there hasn't been much done. i'm glad they have the phone call. we need to get out of the business of political posturing and get it done and i think the president has to lead. i think boehner, a lot of us want a big deal. we're willing to put everything on the table.
>> including new revenue? >> including new revenue. when we talk about they're going to cut, add revenue, cut expenses, we're running $1.3 trillion a year. we're going bankrupt if we don't figure out how to do this in a big way, and i think boehner wants to get that done. i think he can lead on that. i'm glad they're together. i just don't -- over the years i've been in business, you know, you given the professionals an opportunity to get it done but at the end of the day you get in a room yourself and we're not leaving until it gets done. >> do you sense eric cantor, kevin mccarthy, other leaders will give john boehner the room that he needs to do the deal? >> i do. >> without worrying about having to come back and getting his knees cut out from underneath him? >> they've sent some signals. i don't know it if you've been reading. i'm sure you've seen a loft different things about members but i think they want to get a big deal, a substantial deal. i think this will be a defining moment, also, for the president to get something done in a big way. when i came here in '07, a business guy, $130 billion definite. now $1.3 trillion every year.
plenty of blame to go around but enough is enough. we node to get in a room. >> defining for everyone involved actually. >> it is. >> the republicans, speaker boehner, as well as the president and the administration. i mean, everyone fails if this fails. >> but you have to deal with ref gnaws. you have to deal with entitlements. you can't get there without entit entitlements. >> a small deal or a big deal? it will be so tempting to try to get another band-aid solution. >> i've heard -- >> the top number is out, november jobs number t.o. cnbc's brian sullivan for the latest. brian, what are they? >> reporter: better than expected. 146,000 jobs created in november. >> wow. >> reporter: the expectation was for 85,000 jobs to be cruiserweighted, guys, and the unemployment rate drops to 7.7%. there was a lot of concern around this number not only because of the election, maybe firms sitting on their hands but
superstorm sandy. still, guys, the number much better than expected. few tuesday, which were down right before the numbers hit, turned around. they are now higher fractionally so a big turn for stock futures and better than expected jobs number for november. i can dig in more once i get to the website. but those are your headline numbers. better than expected. >> gillian, better than expected. a lot of people blamed hurricane sandy again but that's encouraging. >> i have two economists, a liberal, who both said it was going to be somewhere between 80,000 and 100,000 jobs -- say that go sandy was worth 80 -- negatively 80,000 to 100,000. you take 146,000 and this could have been a 200-plus number. >> it's interesting because it ties in with consumer data we've been seeing which actually, you know, is not great. it's not buoyant, but it's not bad. and you look at the fact what american households have been doing recently with debt and the degree of debt they've been repaying, sort of deleveraging. you add it together and actually
it's not booming but it's not -- >> i want to add if we don't embrace washington and everybody else economic growth we're all in trouble. we can't begin to solve these problems. we have to get back to 4% or 5%. they have policies. medium sized businesses. >> the overall trend over the past several months have been fairly encouraging, right? if you don't own apple stock. >> yeah, the trends -- with the exception of that, i guess. if you owned it for a number of years you've done very well, joe. going through the numbers here a little bit more, looking at the long-term unemployed, little changed. that remains about the same. we're seeing people again. if you have a four-year college degree and you're above 25 years old because that's key and where they cut it off, you're pretty much fully employed. it technically full on employment according to economists. we are seeing average hourly earnings and weekly wages tick up a bit, too, which is good. we talk about median incomes, haven't really done much over the last decade or so.
not a big jump but a little jum am and a jump nonetheless which is what we want to see. as the labor force constricts, as employers are forced to be a little more sort of aggressive in their hiring, they will have to offer higher wages to get the people they need as employees finally have more bargaining power when the job markets get better so we're seeing average hourly earnings tick up as well. futures turned around. all around a much better than expected jobs number. >> fan ttastic. >> that's incredible. >> all right. >> brian sullivan, thank you. >> i'll tell you what -- >> get the fiscal deal done, get this done. >> we're going to get it done. >> there we go. >> a new poll -- >> and you get to run on a nice economy, right? then what do you do? peace and prosperity. here we go. >> peace breaks out. >> the president's policies may not be so bad for this country.
>> let's not jump off that cliff yet. really quickly, jim demint, one of those things you get -- it's a shock. he's one of the more influential republicans in washington. >> but that's what's amazing. he made the correct calculation -- how can i become more influential? i'm going to lead the united states senate and he's right. he's becoming as one conservative said to me, now the ceo of the conservative movement. and that is as good of a description as any. it will take heritage. short term the republican leadership in the house and senate are secretly like, good. long term i think there's a chance that jim demint takes sort of -- think about this. dick armey was able to create a power center and this wasn't sort of this large -- he had been pushed out of washington, if you will. imagine how jim demint is this unifying force and heritage isn't just the ideas factory but then becomes a campaign factory as well.
and all the money gravitates there. he could become, you know, a much more powerful force on the conservative movement and a more than just a thorn in the side of the establishment. >> vern, what do you think? >> i think we're all pretty shocked, i mean, he's had such a big footprint in terms of the conservative movement. you're right, chuck. he could have an even bigger impact outside. i think we're trying to digest what that means right now. >> congressman vern buchanan, good too much you back on the show. chuck, you're on "the daily rundown." do you have it all lined up? >> i do. this new york show. we'll have allen krueger, the chief economist there. >> that's excitinexciting. >> i did. brian williams called and said i had to be here. >> i love it. >> and, gillian, you have a column out about the other fiscal crisis. >> it's not a fiscal crisis actually. not even a crisis. with the banking system because back in the financial crisis a whole bunch of temporary
measures were introduced to help shore up the banking system and one of them was an unlimited guarantee for bank deposits if you held your money in a noninterest bearing account. now what everyone has forgotten is that rolls off at the end of the year unless congress agrees to enact an extension. and that could be quite a shock for anyone who has more than $250,000 sitting in a bank account. when we come back -- >> i wish i had that problem. >> so do i. >> that is the ultimate problem. >> a lot of companies have a lot of money in banks right now because they didn't want to invest it. what are they going to do with their cash? language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. information on my phone. connection to doctors who get where i'm from. and tools to estimate what my care may cost. so i never missed a beat.
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trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat, or sweating. with flexpen®... say good night to vial and syringe. ask your doctor about levemir® flexpen. covered by 90% of insurance plans, including medicare. find your co-pay at myflexpen.com. bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. welcome back to "morning joe." executive editor of "the
economist." daniel franklin here with the magazine, "the world in 2013" issue. and you look at great places to live and be born in and it doesn't happen to necessarily be the united states when you're looking at the countries in order of greatness. >> no. we asked our colleagues at the intelligence unit and it's not just about economics. it's not just about gdp. it's also about safety, family r relations and so on. they've put in their numbers and switzerland came up. >> number one. >> you could say boring is best but in today's world perhaps it's not so bad. number four, mika, your brother as ambassador, too. >> everyone gets 18 years. maybe that's an exaggeration but
there is a great quality of life in sweden. >> yes, unfortunately, the united states has backed down in 16th place. >> what? >> my country is even further down. >> oh, no. >> france is down as well. france is just a notch above. >> so why is the united states and germany both number 16? >> well, i think it's to do partly with the economic prospects which are not so great. also to do with things like crime rate in the united states, people like to feel safe and they feel safer in some of these european countries and australia does work very well, too. >> what's great britain's problem? why are they -- >> many problems in britain. not the least we have not such great economic prospects prepared for a lot of these countries. and we have high rates of social problems as well. >> a lot of it is to do with
social cohesion. when you look at the countries in the top, switzerland, australia, denmark, singapore, they all have a strong sense of national and social cohesion and i would say one of the questions that really affects quality of life in a country today is do people feel they're pulling together and feel part of society or not? >> is there a consistency about the top countries, what they're doing in terms of economic plans and what they're investing? >> that's not what the survey looked at particularly but it is also sobering 20 think we did the same exercise 25 years ago, not strictly comparable then. it was much more like exercise, bonus points awarded for things like quality. and at that time the united states did become number one. >> really? spell it out for us, though, as to why the united states is lower down on the list. you talked about -- you framed it, the economic situation. but if you could give a specific
example. >> not only the economy, actually, i think the united states economy still has great prospects as well. >> what characteristics? >> it seems like the crime rate, the sense of insecurity in the united states and social cohesion is greater in some other parts of the world particularly some of the non-european countries. >> so how do you restore america's xcompetitiveness? "the economist" dug into this $64,000 question. what were the answers? >> this was actually michael porter from harvard. they have a big study on american competitiveness. they identify several areas where america was slipping down into competitiveness states and they came up with eight things that america could do now to improve competitiveness. quite an interesting program. things like cutting red tape, allowing more skilled workers, easing immigration in that
sense. and, of course, softening up the fiscal problems. >> we talk about immigration an awful lot. mark mckinnon, easing immigration for highly skilled workers, the republicans in congress passed that. harry reid and the democrats won't pass it. the president is holding this hostage. you hear thomas friedman talking about this all the time, that for some reason the president and democrats don't want to pass that. >> george w. bush back in the '90s, we've been working on it ever since. i'm encouraged about the prospects for immigration reform. one of the good things about republicans losing, it's forcing them to the table. >> republicans have been pushing to try to get more highly skilled workers in the country. >> they have. >> why do democrats oppose that? >> i think it's because it's been part after comprehensive package. >> it is clear immigration will be a big issue the next few months of next year. it's an interesting question to ponder. is it going to be easier to get
bipartisan view on immigration or on the fiscal cliff? they're both very important in terms of getting business moving. >> i think there's more after consensus on immigration than on the fiscal cliff. >> let's talk about taxing overseas profits only where they are earned. explain that. >> well, that's really something where the united states is an outlier and the argument here is bring them back where they're earned. at the moment the problem is american companies have lots of money sitting overseas because they don't want to bring it back and be taxed in the united states. so that is something that puts as one of his eight points because it is holding back investments by american companies. >> all right. the new issue of "the economist" is "the world in 2013." daniel franklin. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. stay with us. much more on "morning joe." ♪
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